Curse

cormac ap dunn · Feb 15, 2012, 11:14 PM // 23:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Slowpokeking

Yeah, those 4 men quests is annoying even in NM.

Actually quite a few people are saying about it.

Rewards like hero should be available in NM like all others, it's fair to get a rit hero after you beat NM WoC. I don't see a problem here. HM offer double rewards, it's fair, too. Just like it's not cool to spend 4 gems to get Razah.

You seem to be stuck on just one thing.... LOL

Wielder Of Magic · Feb 15, 2012, 11:17 PM // 23:17

Slowpoke, did you even finish the HM chain?
Just wondering because your passion in advocating an easier way of obtaining Zei Ri almost makes me think you can't get him yourself.

cormac ap dunn · Feb 15, 2012, 11:17 PM // 23:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kunder

No, grind is shit. Trying to frame it as a good thing is completely retarded.

I've played nearly all of my characters within the past month, experimenting with various builds.

classy response... I wonder why I even respond to these threads... the same few people regurgitate the same responses, spew a bit of drivel, and generally knockdown the IQ of the community a bit and then refute valid points with things like this (or the 4 gems for Razah guy above...).

Flameseeker · Feb 15, 2012, 11:24 PM // 23:24

I wouldn't call tracking the corruption challenging. To me it's somewhere between skill and dumb luck, or use a few gimmicks that only work if you have the right profession (like the famine+visage SF that would require an A/Me).
The rest is just skill to actually kill quickly and dumb luck so none of the heroes/npc run to other mobs or a monk of another group comes healing their allies and you end up agroing the whole map. (/end frustration of being stuck here)

Back on topic, i would agree that once unlocked the Rit hero (by having the trouble of clearing WoC NM+HM in 1 char) one could just choose the missions he would like to do in other chars. If you want the rewards you could do everything all over, if not just do the last mission NM/HM and get sin/rt. (much like you don't have to beat a campaign all over again to unlock HM on a new char)
If anyone actually beat WoC once NM+HM i see how that isn't a challenge but a hassle.
Still i'll never give in to getting the new Rit hero in NM on a single playthrough, even if it means i'll never have it too.

Axel Zinfandel · Feb 16, 2012, 12:05 AM // 00:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by cormac ap dunn

classy response... I wonder why I even respond to these threads... the same few people regurgitate the same responses, spew a bit of drivel, and generally knockdown the IQ of the community a bit and then refute valid points with things like this (or the 4 gems for Razah guy above...).

Choice of words aside, he's right. Grind is not GW. If you want grind, there's plenty of other games for it, so you can easily go play one of those.

Not saying there isn't grind in GW, but it is generally restricted to vanity items and titles. Like Lanier, I don't like the idea of ANYTHING gameplay effecting being tied to HM. Off the top of my head I can't think of anything else so gameplay effecting that is ONLY available for beating something HM.

And before Mercs are mentioned, I don't like anything gameplay affecting being Pay-only either...

At this point in the game's life, I find myself hardly caring too much anyway, but HM was intended to be a harder mode of play for larger rewards, not an expansion off of which more things will be unlocked. That's the thing about HM. I don't NEED to play it to get everything in this game. I could farm and get anything I needed to just playing NM if I were so inclined.

TL: DR: It's not about laziness, it's about consistency.

cormac ap dunn · Feb 16, 2012, 12:12 AM // 00:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Axel Zinfandel

Choice of words aside, he's right. Grind is not GW. If you want grind, there's plenty of other games for it, so you can easily go play one of those.

Not saying there isn't grind in GW, but it is generally restricted to vanity items and titles. Like Lanier, I don't like the idea of ANYTHING gameplay effecting being tied to HM. Off the top of my head I can't think of anything else so gameplay effecting that is ONLY available for beating something HM.

And before Mercs are mentioned, I don't like anything gameplay affecting being Pay-only either...

At this point in the game's life, I find myself hardly caring too much anyway, but HM was intended to be a harder mode of play for larger rewards, not an expansion off of which more things will be unlocked.

TL

R: It's not about laziness, it's about consistency.

on topic of consistency, HM is linked to several titles, the same grind argument is made all the time. Nothing about this is out of line with proportionately larger rewards for all current HM areas. Chests, loot, faction, experience are exponentially better in HM.

Charlie Dayman · Feb 16, 2012, 12:19 AM // 00:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flameseeker

I wouldn't call tracking the corruption challenging. To me it's somewhere between skill and dumb luck, or use a few gimmicks that only work if you have the right profession (like the famine+visage SF that would require an A/Me).
The rest is just skill to actually kill quickly and dumb luck so none of the heroes/npc run to other mobs or a monk of another group comes healing their allies and you end up agroing the whole map. (/end frustration of being stuck here)

Dunno if you're still stuck there, but I found it really helped to flag your heroes in that little nook that Pan is in. This keeps them far back enough to avoid aggro and gives a small barricade against any melee that happens to wander to you. For my team (playing as an Ele), I used a:

-AoL Necro with Well of Suffering
-BiP Necro + Well of Blood
-Dervish merc to ball up everyone and hold aggro
-SoS Rit
-Monk
-Panic & Ineptitude Memsers

I set up spirits in the nook and flagged the Derv far up front to hold aggro. Melee balls around the tank, so it's pretty easy to take them down with Ineptitude. Panic stops everything too since the groups are so concentrated. If anything wanders too close to your casters, Spirits and Minions will usually take them down or at least block them. And given how many dead bodies there are, the wells really make a difference here.

It was mostly the Mesmers casting Chaos Storm that you had to look out for since the area is so small. I tried flagging heroes by the cart, but they always pissed off the groups to the right.

Gli · Feb 16, 2012, 12:39 AM // 00:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Axel Zinfandel

At this point in the game's life, I find myself hardly caring too much anyway, but HM was intended to be a harder mode of play for larger rewards, not an expansion off of which more things will be unlocked. That's the thing about HM. I don't NEED to play it to get everything in this game. I could farm and get anything I needed to just playing NM if I were so inclined.

This. Adding new story elements to HM versions of quests is just... nonsensical, I have no other word for it. How does this work? It ruins the integrity of the narrative. Replaying content in HM has always been just a gameplay thing, not a story thing. Our characters didn't actually go through every mission for a second time, storywise, when we replayed them in HM.

But now, we apparently do. My character went to Shing Jae to save it from invading tengu twice. I guess everyone involved drank too much from those huge rice wine bottles, because they didn't remember doing all of that before. I even had to explain the exploding bottle idea again. Cynn probably got annoyed with all the shenanigans, because she came down to talk some sense into Mhenlo during the second tengu siege.

And that Zei Ri fellow, he's a bit of a coward. Didn't show up when I stopped Reiko the first time, but after her miraculous resurrection, he joined the fight when I went to confront her again. Spineless sod only showed up because he saw I had the upper hand again.

That's how the story goes, right?

Lithril Ashwalker · Feb 16, 2012, 02:05 AM // 02:05

i dont think tis the fact they want the hero after nm, for free, i think its some quests that have quite a few people QQings, even myself, given the release date there arent any sufficient guides to completing it with any primary character with heroes, some people just dont want or can use other players to complete a quest chain. quests that have no where to run, no way to pull, no way to tank with you beign over run by 200+ am fah, in HM mind you are completely lucked in order to win, sure a few players got it but whats the point if only a few can get it? shouldnt it be able to gotten after like 3 tries not 4 days?

Essence Snow · Feb 16, 2012, 04:48 AM // 04:48

K so now I'm on toon 3 of 11 (part 3hm woc)...this crap is udder BS......there is no fricken way this is reasonable to do on mutiple toons. I'll be shocked if this doesn't get changed. To the nay-sayers (or however it's spelt) 10-1 says you have only done it once and have no intentions of doing it again. If that's not you...you might be inbalanced. I would hope/suspect to see some sort of update to address this.

Lanier · Feb 16, 2012, 05:15 AM // 05:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by cormac ap dunn

on topic of consistency, HM is linked to several titles, the same grind argument is made all the time. Nothing about this is out of line with proportionately larger rewards for all current HM areas. Chests, loot, faction, experience are exponentially better in HM.

Titles are completely different than actual rewards since titles (with a few, minor exceptions that can also be optained entirely in NM) dont affect gameplay.

This is out of line with "proportionately larger rewards" for all current HM areas because thee other rewards you mention can still be obtained in NM, even if they'll take much longer. This hero, on the other hand, can not be obtained at all in NM.

You're getting awfully fired up about this...

What does it matter to you if Anet changes Zei Ri so that he is available in some other manner? If its just because of your "sense of accomplishment"... well thanks kind of silly to be honest.

Markaedw · Feb 16, 2012, 05:53 AM // 05:53

How about this, complete once in NM then unlock the quests as repeatable individually in HM.

Mintha Syl · Feb 16, 2012, 07:24 AM // 07:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by cormac ap dunn

on topic of consistency, HM is linked to several titles, the same grind argument is made all the time. Nothing about this is out of line with proportionately larger rewards for all current HM areas. Chests, loot, faction, experience are exponentially better in HM.

Titles are not content. They're just e-peen.
And for the rest we go over the same thing again and again. More rewards in numbers is not comparable by far with exclusive rewards.

What I felt like saying, with all this talking about "lazyness"...I see it exactly the opposite, I see the way it is now is gonna reward lazyness more. How? I could see most buying runs through all WoC NM+HM (or just the latter) as they want the hero but don't want to grind through it all (especially if you have to do it with 10-20 chars). And don't tell me it's not gonna happen, someone already used "you can pay someone to run you though it" as an excuse to why it shouldn't be changed....imho THAT is true lazyness, but it will easily be the result of how things are now.

Cash · Feb 16, 2012, 09:35 AM // 09:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Essence Snow

K so now I'm on toon 3 of 11 (part 3hm woc)...this crap is udder BS......there is no fricken way this is reasonable to do on mutiple toons. I'll be shocked if this doesn't get changed. To the nay-sayers (or however it's spelt) 10-1 says you have only done it once and have no intentions of doing it again. If that's not you...you might be inbalanced. I would hope/suspect to see some sort of update to address this.

QFT.

Im still working on my first toon (slowly but surely getting there), and I have 20. Not that I actually plan on getting them all done....ever. Realistically, most of my alts will never see Keiran, Miku, or Zei Ri. But look at the effort involved with each. Zei Ri takes TONS more time/effort to unlock.

I find it really disheartening and sad that there have been so many "stop whining" responses. Can people really not realize that we're not saying "this is too hard- change it!" but just pointing out how out of character it is for there to be a "HM only" reward? Most of us are just saying "Hey, there are many more things Id rather be doing than grinding out WoC TWICE on every toon." I think a decent compromise would be allowing us to finish NM, then repeat only The Final Confrontation on HM to unlock Zei Ri.

I have a feeling the issue will be addressed at some point and this will be changed. If not, its not the end of the world. Don't get me wrong- Im VERY thankful for the GW Beyond FREE content. I just think they had a little brainfart when they let this issue happen.

Yol · Feb 16, 2012, 02:15 PM // 14:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cash

I think a decent compromise would be allowing us to finish NM, then repeat only The Final Confrontation on HM to unlock Zei Ri.

Alternatively, remove the requirement to do the whole chain in nm first, and allow players to just do the hm chain if they wish (rewarding both Miku and Zei Ri at the end).

MithranArkanere · Feb 16, 2012, 03:30 PM // 15:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Essence Snow

K so now I'm on toon 3 of 11 (part 3hm woc)...this crap is udder BS......there is no fricken way this is reasonable to do on mutiple toons. I'll be shocked if this doesn't get changed. To the nay-sayers (or however it's spelt) 10-1 says you have only done it once and have no intentions of doing it again. If that's not you...you might be inbalanced. I would hope/suspect to see some sort of update to address this.

Then I'll do it in 10 characters just to prove it to you that it can be done.

Essence Snow · Feb 16, 2012, 04:31 PM // 16:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by MithranArkanere

Then I'll do it in 10 characters just to prove it to you that it can be done.

Please re-read that.....I've never once said it couldn't be done...just that it is unreasonable (in terms of grind). By all means do the 700 quests across 10 toons....I am sure by your 4th go round (roughly 280 quests) you'll change your tune.

Ewa Kirch · Feb 16, 2012, 05:23 PM // 17:23

I've so far completed all of WoC in NM & HM on 2 toons, with 3 more at various stages in NM, maybe if I had gotten better drops from the lockbox (see lockbox drop thread for details!) I would have more motivation to continue with my other toons, therefore I too would prefer the unlocking of HM to be account wide so at the very most I could "just" do the quests in HM only.

Mireles · Feb 16, 2012, 06:05 PM // 18:05

/notsigned

Just because something is useful and worth having doesn't mean it should be easy to get.... Welcome to your motivation to even want do HM in this new content.... they even watered it down a little for y'all "quit on my first fail because I don't want to critically think" qq-ers... so suck it up or buy a mercenary pack... if it wasn't this way HM wouldn't get played by nearly as many people

Mordiego · Feb 16, 2012, 06:19 PM // 18:19

\not signed
Miku is already a good reward.